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/sci/ - Science & Math


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1831062 No.1831062 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Hello /sci/

I'm trying to increase awareness for The Venus Project.

If you've never heard of it before, visit this link:

http://www.thevenusproject.com/the-venus-project-introduction/aims-proposals

I'd be happy to take any questions or comments you may have, as long as they aren't simply dismissive and do not give any explanation or show any lack of awareness.

>> No.1831071
Quoted by: >>1831081

>>OP
I love the Venus Project. +1.

>> No.1831079
Quoted by: >>1831092 >>1831097

The Venus project will never be done.

They want to create a government free state in the middle of a government police state. They can't just create a new society in the middle of the shithole they want to escape from thats just not how things work. They can build their city and they can have people move in but if they think they can be a police free state free from the influence of government then they are just out of their minds.

>> No.1831081

>>1831071

Glad to hear it anon. Also, inb4 samefag

>> No.1831092
Quoted by: >>1831099

>>1831079

You're absolutely correct in the sense that the Venus Project cannot truly work until this system stops running. Proponents of the Venus Project recognize this, and aren't planning to build any cities until the world's leaders come to the consensus that it's the right thing to do.

This will happen when the world's monetary system collapses, which is destined to happen by the way.

>> No.1831097

>>1831079
Lawl. He's basically saying, TL;DR. It's the same argument I hear all the time.

>> No.1831099
File: 31 KB, 484x488, 1253780496520.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1831099

>>1831092
>>OP
If the world's economy fucks up royally and these guys start mobilizing I'm helping them. What about you guys? Pretty damn close to technocratic post-scarcity libertarian socialism

>> No.1831113

>>1831099
>technocratic post-scarcity libertarian socialism
How can such a specific name cover so many people?

>> No.1831135

bump

Captcha: ideas, ruppling

maybe it's an omen...

>> No.1831156
Quoted by: >>1831167

>>1831099
Just take the socialism out of there, and I'm cool with it.

>> No.1831164

>>1831099
/sign

>> No.1831167
Quoted by: >>1831181 >>1831190

>>1831156
Well I would assume in a Venus Projectish system that most of the companies and distribution an dmannafacturing owuld be under some automated central control and direction, so wouldn't that make it a form of socialism?
Don't think of Cuba and all that. There are many different types of socialism.

>> No.1831168
Quoted by: >>1831182 >>1831200

>>1831099
>technocratic post-scarcity libertarian socialism
Everything about that sentence is wrong. I cannot even find a place to start. You realize you're a retard, right?

>> No.1831173

>>1831099
Where are all the mountains of rhodium or iridium? Post Scarcity will not ever be achieved because there will always be a shortage of some commodities.

>> No.1831181
Quoted by: >>1831195 >>1831197

>>1831167

Most people who don't fully understand the venus project believe it's a form of socialism or communism.

This simply isn't true. There is no government at all in this society; computers control all automated systems, but only control them in accordance with the scientific method. Thus, science is literally running society.

With that regard, there is no leader or government.

And out of all the people in the world, I'd think that a group of computer users on an underground science image board would be in favor of applying science to society instead of corrupt politicians.

>> No.1831182
Quoted by: >>1831199 >>1831204

>>1831168
Well I don't know what to call it. Besides when I dissect it it turns out to something like:
technocratic post-scarcity libertarian socialism
Smart people making decisions over the abundance while not being restrictive dicks and making sure everyone is taken care of with a common form of ownership.

>> No.1831190

>>1831167
I prefer individualism, since in the future I would assume that we become more de-centralized, not more collectivized.

I'd rather help people out of mutual benefit, then out of coercion and need.

>> No.1831195

>>1831181
Politics is an attempt to maintain and create order. Science can do this much easier, simpler, and better.

Example: if all cars were driven by computers and linked to a GPS system. The need for stop signs, speed limits, etc would disappear completely.

>> No.1831197
Quoted by: >>1831219

>>1831181
You sir are an idiot. Let me begin to describe the ways.

Science cannot answer moral questions. By definition, "should" questions are not falsifiable questions about the natural world, and thus they are not science. This stupid computer system based solely on science cannot answer a simple question like "Should I kill everyone? Or feed them?"

Second, your AI is a pipedream.

>> No.1831199

>>1831182
There needs to be some form of public discussion and decision making. Smart people are corruptible too. Add democratic in there.

>> No.1831200
Quoted by: >>1831209

>>1831168
Ney, sir, libertarian socialism actually exists:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

Essentially it's just an anarchic community practicing socialist ideals.

>> No.1831204
Quoted by: >>1831217 >>1831227

>>1831182
pipedream

You at least need police, otherwise what's to prevent me from killing you and taking your stuff? I wouldn't, but plenty of other people would.

>> No.1831209
Quoted by: >>1831214 >>1831233

>>1831200
And such societies don't really exist. It's Utopia - Latin or Greek (I forget) for no place.

>> No.1831214
Quoted by: >>1831215

>>1831209
>And such societies don't really exist.
Portland, OR

>> No.1831215
Quoted by: >>1831224

>>1831214
I assure you that either the number is below 100, or there are some rules in place for government. They might be unofficial titles, positions, and power, but there is a government and police force in place.

>> No.1831217
Quoted by: >>1831228

>>1831204
>I wouldn't, but plenty of other people would.

That's what everyone says. Any way, why would you in a post-scarcity environment? What do you have to gain?

>> No.1831219
Quoted by: >>1831254

>>1831197

Where to begin...clearly you haven't read into the venus project, which, by your definition, would make YOU the idiot.

But attacking the person never solves anything.
The computers which control the mechanisms of society DON'T try to answer moral questions.

These computers evaluate soil deposits, harvest crops, analyze the earth for sources of geothermal energy and then use the scientific method for maximizing nutrients and equilibrium with the earth

All the hollywood movies you've learned about computers fucking us over are unrealistic.

>> No.1831224

>>1831215
You've never even been there, they're the closet thing anyone can get to libertarian socialism, or even libertarianism itself.

>> No.1831227
Quoted by: >>1831236

>>1831204

In a world where everyone is given what they require, why would there be crime?

I do actually agree with you that SOME crime would still occur; this is definitely an area which needs development in the plan but it's a small issue

>> No.1831228
Quoted by: >>1831238

>>1831217
>post scarcity
What the fuck is wrong with you? Barring fusion and star trek replicators, there is no such thing.

Also, how does scarcity matter for stuff like rape, crimes of passion, serial killers, people who are power hungry, etc. The list goes on. Not all crime and injustice is because of limited resources.

>> No.1831232

>ITT: People (including this futurist-utopian bullshit collective) misinterpret the definition of technocracy

Technocracy is not "rule by computers". Technocracy is "rule by the skillfull".

>> No.1831233
Quoted by: >>1831239 >>1831241

>>1831209
Don't forget destabilized African societies dude. Somalia is a prime example. But then again they're niggers, you can trust them to do anything right.

>> No.1831236
Quoted by: >>1831266

>>1831227
>In a world where everyone is given what they require, why would there be crime?
A lot less crime is motivated by scarcity of resources than you think. People are evil and greedy. Rape, plunder, pillaging, crimes of passion, etc. would not be solved by infinite resources.

Also infinite resources is lol.

>> No.1831238
File: 24 KB, 315x315, robots1[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1831238
Quoted by: >>1831243

>>1831228
>What the fuck is wrong with you? Barring fusion and star trek replicators, there is no such thing.

>> No.1831239

>>1831233
can't*
obviously

>> No.1831241
Quoted by: >>1831248

>>1831233
I think that was my point. No government societies are not places which I would want to live. Only when the number of people are less than say, 100, can they even function. Once that number becomes bigger, you either get a government or you get a shithole.

>> No.1831243
Quoted by: >>1831250

>>1831238
Do you have a point in there somewhere?

>> No.1831248
File: 211 KB, 4877x4500, sigh2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1831248
Quoted by: >>1831249

>>1831241
>I think that was my point.
You can't even keep track of your own point?

>> No.1831249

>>1831248
Yes. The OP is a retard because you need government for groups of about 100+ otherwise you descend into a shithole.

>> No.1831250
Quoted by: >>1831263

>>1831243
Money is the valuation of services, labor and the products of said labor. What if robots intelligent enough were set up in such a way that they replace humans and make whatever the fuck we want? Nanoscale assemblers are not needed immediately, and we can get plenty of power from geothermal and solar.

>> No.1831254
Quoted by: >>1831426

>>1831219
>the scientific method for maximizing nutrients and equilibrium with the earth

Come again? Who makes these moral decisions? They're programmed once and never touched again? New moral questions will invariably arise, and you need a government to answer those questions.

Even then, how could a computer act on all of this? Impossible. Or at least impossible with current computer science knowledge, aka a pipedream. I am a professional programmer. I know what the hell I'm talking about.

>> No.1831263
Quoted by: >>1831276

>>1831250
>nanoscale assemblers
As I said, pipedream. Once you get star trek replicators and a shitton of power, then we'll talk about this otherwise insane plan. Until you get /anywhere close/ to that, the plan is beyond silly.

Talk to me about something practicable now, or explicitly describe your idea as a science fiction pipedream. You are conflating the two, and that is intellectual dishonesty.

>> No.1831266

>>1831236

The Venus Project understand the earth doesn't have infinite resources. If you actually read up on it you would know this.

Also, rape, murder and most other crimes only exist because of the society.

If you grow up being a head-hunter in africa, taught to kill others from birth you would be a head hunter and would see no problem in it.

If you're brought up in an indian tribe, and you're taught to love and respect one another, not to steal, etc, you wouldnt (and btw most historians agree that the native american societies never had to worry about crime like the west does)

Once we understand that humans only act in response to their environment, it becomes obvious that our current society simply does not work

>> No.1831273
Quoted by: >>1831284

Better yet, how would a computer determine what does and doesn't deserve rights in a future society?

Transhumanism is going to be a big fucking problem in the future. If a computer is doling out equal amounts of food and energy to a populace, how can it differentiate based on the needs of wildly modified humans and human-like beings?

>> No.1831275
Quoted by: >>1831279

>>1831266
You sir are leaving in a fantasy world.

>The Venus Project understand the earth doesn't have infinite resources. If you actually read up on it you would know this.
Then don't use the term "post scarcity". You sound like an idiot when you use it.

>bunch of bullshit about how humans are only products of their environment and not genetics.

I suggest reading up on Darwinian evolution as a starter.

Let me be clear: I do not condone something as moral because natural selection favors it. However, natural selection does not favor selfish people. It is in our genes. It is not something that can be eradicated through teaching. It not is not purely societal.

>> No.1831276
Quoted by: >>1831283

>>1831263
Reading comprehension? I SAID NOT NEEDED.

>> No.1831277

>>1831266

Actually crime and rape and pillage was really bad in the past. The myth that civilisation brings with it sin is just that.. a myth. The myth of "the noble savage".

Also don't forget our base instincts. It's not all nurture. We're social, pack animals.

>> No.1831278

>>1831266
>If you're brought up in an indian tribe, and you're taught to love and respect one another, not to steal, etc, you wouldnt (and btw most historians agree that the native american societies never had to worry about crime like the west does)

Stopped fucking reading there. People stopped believing in that "noble savage" shit in the 19th century, buddy.

>> No.1831279

>>1831275
err,
Natural selection /does/ favor selfish people. My bad. Typo.

>> No.1831283
Quoted by: >>1831285

>>1831276
Free labor does not mean infinite resources. Thus resources are scarce, to use the technical economics definition as you are. Stop fucking dodging the issue. Either you have free power and replicators, or you have scarce resources.

>> No.1831284
Quoted by: >>1831286

>>1831273
I'm only going to respond to this one post as you're clearly a fucking moron.

To assume some kind of unthinking system would be "in charge" of everything in the future is borderline retarded. There is absolutely zero reason to think that a computer run or optimized system would not be overseen or checked by a proven subjective system (ie: humans).

>> No.1831285
Quoted by: >>1831289

>>1831283
>scarce resources
Shit on Earth is not as scarce as you may have been told. What creates the scarcity is the supply and demand (aka mine just enough to get a profit but not more) and virtually no recycling of these minerals. An ddon't get me started on asteroid mining.

>> No.1831286
Quoted by: >>1831311

>>1831284
>There is absolutely zero reason to think that a computer run or optimized system would not be overseen or checked by a proven subjective system (ie: humans).
So, government?

>> No.1831289
Quoted by: >>1831295

>>1831285
>Shit on Earth is not as scarce as you may have been told.
Yes it is. We'll run out of oil in a couple centuries /at best/, no matter who you're listening to, at present consumption rates.

>What creates the scarcity is the supply and demand (aka mine just enough to get a profit but not more)
no

>and virtually no recycling of these minerals
Recycling isn't a panacea. Recycling is not free, nor can it produce something out of nothing. You must expend work and resources to recycle. For some materials, like metals, it's generally "a good idea" to recycle. It's cheaper, easier, and less harmful to the environment. As for stuff like oil and plastic and paper, it's generally more expensive, harder, and more harmful to the environment to recycle. Also, for paper, it's a renewable resource, so there's even less need to recycle. Finally, recycling oil products is damn near impossible. Your plastic bottle is not recycled into a new plastic bottle because it's too hard / too expensive. Instead, it's recycled into a polyester shirt.

>> No.1831295
Quoted by: >>1831305

>>1831289
>EARTH HAS SCARCE RESOURCES
>brings up oil
Also saying 'no' does not refute my statement or make you Ralph Pootawn
And what you're saying are the problems with recycling, are problems that would arise in a monetary system. There is no more 'expensive.'
If you have the resources and technology to do it, DO IT.

>> No.1831305

>>1831295
>EARTH HAS SCARCE RESOURCES
>brings up oil
Got a problem with that? Oil is a scarce resource. So is any precious metal. So is uranium, or deuterium, drinkable water, arable land, and so on.

>Also saying 'no' does not refute my statement or make you Ralph Pootawn
Yes, but it is funny, and you are a retard.

>And what you're saying are the problems with recycling, are problems that would arise in a monetary system. There is no more 'expensive.'
Come again? You're suggesting we don't have a monetary system? Again, professional programmer talking here: your AI is basically impossible. It's entirely unworkable with present technology and computer knowledge.

So, we need some other system to allocate the scarce resources to people. It has its problems, but capitalism, with a mix of socialism, tends to be the best such system.

>If you have the resources and technology to do it, DO IT.
Sorry. The real world doesn't work that way. There are costs involved. Not having money does not change that. There is a finite amount of human work which can be done. One way to measure the amount of human work which can be done is "cost". Technology can increase this, but it still remains finite.

>> No.1831311
Quoted by: >>1831316 >>1831320

>>1831286
Venus Project does away with money so the government would be substantially harder to corrupt.

>> No.1831314
Quoted by: >>1831341

The problem with something like this is that people want things to continue as per usual, no matter what our societal structure.

People want their garbage television, and they want to replace them every 2 years with marginally upgraded tech. People want their fast food, and a lot of it. People want to be sold shit, they need new garbage on the market. Noone wants to stop the way we live, period.

Something like this would never work, because it would require people to be happy with the way things were/could be. I don't know if it's society that teaches people to constantly grab at useless shit, or if it's some sort of hoarding instinct.

Fact is it's impossible. People flat out don't want it, no matter how much better it would be, no matter how much valid factual information you present that it's entirely possible. People will reject it, because it means rejecting everything they've invested their time/lives in as of yet. Simple economics on that bit, really.

>> No.1831316
Quoted by: >>1831319

>>1831311
The Venus Project wont do away with blowjobs. As long as there are blowjobs, politicians will be corrupt.

>> No.1831319

>>1831316

haha I'd imagine that in the society created under the venus project there would be less separation between the sexes, meaning more natural behavior and thus more blowjobs...but this shouldn't be the basis of our argument haha

>> No.1831320
Quoted by: >>1831465

>>1831311
Yeah... no. I think you underestimate the ingenuity of human greed. Some people are power hungry for no other reason than to boss other people around, to hurt them, to control them, to dominate them, etc.

Also, don't say "no government" when there clearly is a government.

>> No.1831341
File: 261 KB, 600x594, 1255291659111.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1831341
Quoted by: >>1831348 >>1831362

>>1831314
What if you automate production to the level that amazing huge 3D HDTV's that sip power, last nearly a hundred years and dispense coffee and M&M's and all that? Consumerism doesn't have to vanish, just evolve to something where everything sold on the market isn't poorly manafactured chinese shit. Planned obsolesence needs to die.

>> No.1831343
Quoted by: >>1831406

Humans are pack animals. Our packs are called nations. There are alphas, betas, and what have you. This is scientifically documented fact- some like to lead and some like to be lead.

We're not going to do away with government while we're still human. The only way to change human nature is to change humanity, and in doing so, it ceases to be humanity.

>> No.1831347

>>OP
I read some of the stuff at the link. Included was:

>7. Gradually outgrowing corporate entities and governments, (local, national, or supra-national) as means of social management.

That means they're retarded anarchists. They're living in a pipedream world. Not much else needs to be said. Perhaps when they come up with a practicable plan and stop being so naive about the human condition, there might be a good discussion.

>> No.1831348
Quoted by: >>1831349

>>1831341
>What if you automate production
What if I had a pixie who's name was Jimmie?

>> No.1831349

>>1831348
Ack,
>whose
fixed

>> No.1831362

>>1831341

People don't want it to. And it never will. If you had a TV like that, someone would create a market niche for one that dispensed skittles too. Or made cakes, and touched your balls while you watched porn.

Look at religion, unless people are spoon fed "progress" they lose all hope and become sadistic/masochistic whack jobs. If you gave society today the keys to a perfect world, we'd burn it to the ground 'cause we'd have no idea what to do next.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing necessarily. I've thought about things like this since I was a child, I've never understood money or consumerism. I'm not an idiot, I just don't get the why. People seem to want it, though, it's the only answer I can come up with; there's no point for it otherwise. People can deny that we have the resources or capability for something like this but in the end it falls on the shoulders of the people.

I don't have figures or something, but I bet in the next year, or even 5, we produce enough cars, televisions, computers, and all the other bullshit under the sun that everyone on the planet could possess one. And people will still say we don't have the resources. It's all bullshit, weak responses because every single human being has an emotional investment in the way things go now.

We're taught that we "forge our own destiny", and people buy it, so when you suggest something like this you suggest stealing their dreams.

>> No.1831406

>>1831343

Being a pack animal doesn't mean you have to have an authority.

Humans existed for 200 000 years, civilizations have existed 12000~ years. Of course paleolithic people had the tribes' strongest hunter and wisest men but it doesn't mean they had authority like we do now.

Stop saying things like "human nature" as if we could objectively define it right now.

>> No.1831420
Quoted by: >>1831429

Hey OP that site is pretty coo-

>References to zeitgeist

Almost got me there, OP!

>> No.1831426
Quoted by: >>1831457

>>1831254

People have all the resources they need.

They have access to any university, and all ideas they wish.

They are brought up to be open minded critical thinkings, they're taught how to think logically and reasonably and to treat others with compassion.

No government exists, because none has to.

Also, the computers only control technical questions such as where/how to harvest crops.

I'm not questioning your programming skills, trust me. I know some programming myself and i understand you cant really program morals. You dont have to.

>> No.1831429
Quoted by: >>1831441

>>1831420

Prime example of people refuting an idea without considering it.

>> No.1831441

>>1831429

Monetary and banking system will not die any soon. If it does the people on the top will know better what to do than a bunch of conspiracionists high on zeitgeist clips. Face it already

>> No.1831451

I read a little about it just for the lulz. I like it. I think it would require a much higher level of education because it relies on ppl doing work just for fun. Also, we'd need robots that intelligently do the work for us and maintain themselves.

>> No.1831457
Quoted by: >>1831899

>>1831426
do you really expect this to succeed?
humanity shines in the face of adversity
safety and idleness with just cause stagnation

>> No.1831463
Quoted by: >>1831506

Also, you could implement a credit system that would reward ppl, who spend their own energy and time on things that really contribute to the society, with fun stuff although it's hard to to long for anything if you have everything. Maybe stuff such as chosing at what age you want to remain eternaly young could be bought with such credits, otherwise you'd always be 40.

>> No.1831465

>>1831320
You're approaching that as though it would be the rule, not an exception that would be dealt with appropriately. If those with power have nothing to gain by operating in a method that is not in accordance with their job description (in the greatest interest of the people) then it stands to reason that those who oversee them (the people or a check/balance system) would be easily able to deal with any maleficence that arises.

>> No.1831506

>>1831463
eternally the little girl

>> No.1831519

Venus Project = Iain Banks' "Culture" society

Ideal, but impossible.

>> No.1831538

Some people are lazy. Some people are corrupt. Both kinds will totally fuck up anything like this should it ever happen.

>> No.1831598

>.com
>preaching about changing the world economy
AH HAHAHA FAGGOTS

>> No.1831614

bump because the venus project kiks ass

>> No.1831620
Quoted by: >>1831635

>>OP

I support the project, I work with my local chapter.


But this won't go anywhere until the current system literally implodes

>> No.1831635
Quoted by: >>1831649

>>1831620

>>But this won't go anywhere until the current system literally implodes

Which it more or less does during the civil war. But other than the automation of industry, Fresco got nearly everything else wrong. Habs are white (for the albedo) and geometric, so at least his designs aren't as comically removed from reality as his economic theories were.

>> No.1831647

sounds like religious morality to me

>> No.1831649

>>1831635
I was wondering when you'd be back futurebro.

>> No.1831653

I literally cannot even finish reading the "Resource Based Economy" shit. Oh my god it hurts so... fucking... bad.

>> No.1831654

mfw when the answer to any problem is

>ROBUTS LOL

So there really is no point in asking any questions.

>> No.1831666

Zeitgeist is bad. Venus Project is awesome, although it won't happen for a few hundred years minimum, if ever. For it to ever happen, new generations will have to be raised to actually think for themselves, gradually changing society from the fucktard soup it is today into a place where mentally mature people are the norm instead of the exception. For that to happen religion will have to be eradicated. For that to happen.... ugh.

>> No.1831673
File: 88 KB, 452x640, 1257495474718.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1831673

>>1831666
>few hundred years minimum

>> No.1831674

>>1831666
It's ok Satan, 3d time in a week you visit /sci/.
Just create virus that kills religious intent.

>> No.1831676
Quoted by: >>1831715

>>1831666
The whole premise is based on an abundance of resources. The author even admits that money is needed in an economy with scarce resources.

Resources will always be scarce.

>> No.1831715
Quoted by: >>1831748

>>1831676

>>Resources will always be scarce.

Which ones, though? That seems to be what critics of post scarcity economics never thought of. Advances in chemistry and material science yielded swap-in alternatives for crucial materials using other, more abundant elements.

Bioplastics is the most famous example of this. In fact most ultracaps are still bioceramic, another instance of using plant matter as a substitute where we used to need relatively rare minerals.

>> No.1831717
Quoted by: >>1831722

I would be totally unproductive in a society like this. I'd just play vidya and masturbate all day. I'd probably be even more deviant and will jack off all over the place with my main goal of having other people unexpectedly eat my cum. Thanks to this society I would not get in trouble for it because fuck the police etc. As my last act on earth I will free humanity though my cum by masturbating all over the central computers, fucking them up forever.

Then we could finally go back to killing each other and I will be regarded as a hero for 127 years. We should finish the job we started in the 1900's by then.

>> No.1831722
Quoted by: >>1831724 >>1831741

>>1831717

>>I would be totally unproductive in a society like this. I'd just play vidya and masturbate all day.

Yeah. We call those people 'invalids'. And it is a legitimate social problem. But they're a gradually shrinking minority. There's a powerful stigma attached to the refusal to contribute to society.

>> No.1831724

>>1831722
Oh yeah? Well fuck your shit. I'll jack off wherever I please.

>> No.1831735

I'd rather stay with Scientology

>> No.1831741
Quoted by: >>1831761

>>1831722
>There's a powerful stigma attached to the refusal to contribute to society.
And this is different from people on welfare... how?

>> No.1831748
Quoted by: >>1831763

>>1831715
> Which ones, though?
It doesn't matter. Consumption will increase until the cost of increasing consumption further is greater than the additional pleasure received. There will probably be some times of feast where resources are plentiful enough that costs never significantly rise, but this is always a temporary condition.

>> No.1831752
Quoted by: >>1831758

So basically we have to wait until the monetary system collapses and until science & technology have reached a level, where they can solve anything.

What should we do until then? buy books and nice pictures of future-cities?

There are people who earn money with this "Venus Project" , you know...(ridiculous name btw.)

>> No.1831758

>>1831752
I doubt you'll have to wait more than 40 years.

>> No.1831761

>>1831741

It isn't, I suppose. Except that to hear my grandpa tell it, when GBI was first implemented everyone lived off of it without reservations, it was considered a pretty huge leap in terms of social progress and people went a little crazy for a while. Most were just thrilled to have been able to pass such a bill, as up until the aftermath of the civil war tainted conservatism irreversibly, there would've been insurmountable political opposition to the notion of GBI. Lots of photos showing everyone from college aged communists to anarchists and everyone else throwing parties in the street, as if it somehow represented a victory for their particular ideology, as if they had anything to do with it. The impressiom I got was that lots of different ideological groups had been waiting for something like GBI and autolabor for a long time and it was a dream come true for all of them. So for a time, the system worked as intended.

But eventually I guess people wanted some way to one-up each other. Some way to establish superiority. Owning a business, producing custom goods, achieving fame as an artist. People went back to producing, just for different reasons than they had prior to GBI.

>> No.1831763
Quoted by: >>1831768 >>1831778

>>1831748

>>It doesn't matter. Consumption will increase until the cost of increasing consumption further is greater than the additional pleasure received. There will probably be some times of feast where resources are plentiful enough that costs never significantly rise, but this is always a temporary condition.

That's why currency still exists. It's issued in monthly dispensations as a means of regulating consumption. It's actually pretty difficult to spend your entire dispensation every month, and believe me I've tried.

>> No.1831768

>>1831763
> planned economy
> works
wat

>> No.1831778
Quoted by: >>1831784

>>1831763
Are you roleplaying or something? What kind of response is this?

>> No.1831784
Quoted by: >>1831791 >>1831792

>>1831778
He claims to be from the future, and it's great for feeding my escapism.
Futurebro, pics of future nao.

>> No.1831791
Quoted by: >>1831804

>>1831784
I don't know why I even bother trying to have an intelligent conversation on /sci/.

>> No.1831792 [DELETED] 

>>1831784

There will be pics eventually, keep your pants on.

>> No.1831804

>>1831791

>>I don't know why I even bother trying to have an intelligent conversation on /sci/.

Oh, don't be that way. If you could get over yourself even for a few minutes you might find I make for very intelligent conversation. I had the benefit of a very different and in my opinion better rounded form of education after all.

>> No.1831816

Phase 3 would cause a massive shitstorm in /new/

>> No.1831817

this is /sci/ not /tg/, faggot.

>> No.1831834
Quoted by: >>1831845

-Carbon fuels die

-Need for new means to get energy

-Governments control the new industry of energy

-Currency doesnt change, money still exists

NOTHING CHANGES!

>> No.1831845
Quoted by: >>1831851

>>1831834
Narrowminded much?

>> No.1831851
Quoted by: >>1831867

>>1831845

Maybe I'm narrowminded, maybe you're delusional. we will never know

>> No.1831867
File: 86 KB, 600x600, 1266481147380.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1831867

>>1831851
Oh but we will, by 2050.

>> No.1831880

>>1831266
environment*genetics=personality

>> No.1831882
Quoted by: >>1831890

>Outgrowing nationalism

oh you, let me remind you mankind has gotten this far thanks to nationalism and common identity which made us work together

>> No.1831890
Quoted by: >>1831899

>>1831882
>oh you, let me remind you mankind has gotten this far thanks to nationalism
uhh
>and common identity which made us work together
I think we could call it 'humanity.' My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.

>> No.1831899
Quoted by: >>1831924 >>1831968

>>1831890

as people grow older they start to realize that 'united mankind, country: earth' is a myth, analize history and you will see how conflicts and differences have made the world what it is today, a shithole you will say, but it's still habitable and a enjoyable place

/opinion

read>>1831457

>> No.1831924

>>1831899
Because scarcity then and now and post-scarcity not yet. You can't say shit on the effects till it happens.

>> No.1831961
File: 5 KB, 202x249, images..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1831961
Quoted by: >>1832132 >>1832247

Didn't Tesla say in his autobiography that he was from Venus?

>> No.1831968

>>1831899

>>as people grow older they start to realize that 'united mankind, country: earth' is a myth, analize history and you will see how conflicts and differences have made the world what it is today

An interesting take on it. It'll make me feel slightly less shitty any time I have to break the news that we still fight wars. Over very different things, however.

>> No.1832083
Quoted by: >>1832314

All we have to do is take responsibility for our own actions, and stop telling or legislating that everyone does what we want them to. I think even in some computer controlled utopia the human spirit will want more.

And also computer controlled cars would suck. I love driving and riding motorbikes. I would lose that freedom if cars were all computerized...

>> No.1832132

>>1831961

No, only some bunch of lunatics have claimed something like that.

Also, Tesla has never written an autobiography. Not by himself, anything like that must've been written by somebody who studied Tesla's life.

All he ever wrote was regarding the workings of his patents and theories. At least by my knowledgle.

>> No.1832247

>>1831961
Fun fact, from one of Edgar Cayce trances:

"1158-10 Page 6 We find in that experience when an associate with Leonardo da Vinci, especially. In some of his mechanical inventions, as well as in the painting called "The Last Supper" the entity now called Teslof applied much of that as is the composition of that immortal painting. 24. We are through for the present. "

Figure of course that Cayce was a strong believer in the idea of reincarnation.

>> No.1832314

>There are people who earn money with this "Venus Project" , you know...(ridiculous name btw.)

citation needed.

All the money that comes in from lectures and chapters, goes straight back into the project. Hell Peters poor as fuck

>>1832083

There will still be ways to play with your toys if something like this ever happened

>> No.1833908
File: 79 KB, 720x581, classy shark.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1833908

it's an interesting idea - albeit a little idealistic.
It may be a good idea but the world as it is now runs on money - and those with it will never accept what that which the project stands for.
Best of luck!

>> No.1833955

i grew up in a communist country. let me tell you this: social engineering doesn't work. no matter how good you design it, there will still be bugs, which will get exploited, and you will end up with a dysfuctional society.

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