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/sci/ - Science & Math


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1948600 No.1948600 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Hey /sci/

Are any of you "progressive Christians", "atheistic Christians" or similar?

I didn't know this movement existed until recently, but to me it makes a shitload of sense. I feel strongly about Jesus' teachings, and I like to reflect on how Jesus' teachings could be applied to the modern world, but I just don't believe in magic, and I think Jesus was just some guy.

The idea is to reinterpret "God" by saying:

I know that God is a human invention, BUT EVEN SO the activity of thanking God for your existence and feeling God's presence in everything is a healthy and natural thing to do.

I really think that if you look at the history of Christianity, this is where it's headed. Christianity without the supernatural. I think this is a good thing.

>> No.1948602
Quoted by: >>1948608

>>OP
Or I could you know not deny the basil pleasure of being a human being. If i'm gonna be a human being I sure as shit am not going to feel bad about it.

>> No.1948604
Quoted by: >>1948612

Christianity without the supernatural is blank.

>> No.1948608

>>1948602

Watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XL8LvaJ9Rc

This is Bishop Spong, the Richard Dawkins of progressive Christianity. There is no guilt here, he says we should celebrate who we are.

>> No.1948612
Quoted by: >>1948674

>>1948604
>Christianity without the supernatural is blank.

Really? Is it silly for me to consider Bertrand Russell my hero and role model, but not think he had super powers?

>> No.1948630

I agree with OP. The history of Christianity has been a sequence of stripping away the paranormal bits and leaving the ethical bits.

This is the logical conclusion.

>> No.1948654

yeah right up till the next wave of fundamentalism

>> No.1948661

First off, how does this shit belong on /sci/?
Second, this movement seems to be simply a desperate attempt of christfags to stay modern and not to sink into oblivion when the scientific age comes.

You are free to feel anyone's presence in anything you want if you will, but christianity is going to die anyway, just like any other stupid religion.

>> No.1948668
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1948668

>>OP
I know that Santa Clause is a human invention, BUT EVEN SO the activity of being a good boy and girl, thanking Santa Clause for the presents, and feeling Santas presence in everything is a healthy and natural thing to do.


Progesssive christatnity is Bullshit....but it is still better then regular christanity. It brings us one step closer to the abolishment of religion.

>> No.1948670

That's essentially what Christianity has become, yeah.

Those living outside take it a great deal more seriously.

>> No.1948674

>>1948612
I don't know what Bertrand Russel is, or what it has to do with Christianity.

Christ has complete dominion over heaven and earth. Without that, you don't have much of anything. Might as well be an anti-Christ.

So what, you want to believe that jesus was good but not too good? Let me put it this way, if there were no magic, if Christ wasn't really going to return, judge everybody, and then everyone lives forever, there isn't much of a point to being "good". Now, you may say that I'm advocating being good out of hopes for a reward. It may seem like that. Except what I'm saying is that the reward is part and parcel of the action. And no, I don't think that people who perform "good" actions for reward are genuinely good, and only genuinely good people get into heaven.

I'm just saying, it is what it is, you can't separate it and still make sense of it. Jesus WILL return, everyone WILL be judged, so it would be like imagining a universe without gravity. you can't, its integral to existence.

>> No.1948675
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1948675

sage

>> No.1948680
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1948680
Quoted by: >>1948685

>>OP
I know that Mickey Mouse is a human invention, BUT EVEN SO the activity of thanking Mickey for all the joy he gives, and feeling Mickeys presence in everything is a healthy and natural thing to do.

>> No.1948682
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1948682
Quoted by: >>1948687

>>1948674
>Jesus WILL return

LMAO

>> No.1948684
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1948684

>>1948674

>> No.1948685

>>1948680
MICKEY MOUSE IS SATAN INCARNATE!!!!

>> No.1948687
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1948687

>>1948682
He's taking his time about it. Must have a REEEEALLY shitty uplink...

CAPTCHA: "Moral zombies"

>> No.1948689
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1948689

>>1948674
>there isn't much of a point to being "good"

HA HA HA HA HA, so you never took basic polysci right? Humans are "good" becuase of the basic social contract we all accept by living in a society/families. People can be good without religion. Religion has a long history of actully beinig more detrimental to society then beneficial.

>> No.1948690
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1948690
Quoted by: >>1948696

I know that 4chan is a m00t's invention, BUT EVEN SO the activity of trolling /sci/ and feeling trolls presence in every thread is a healthy and natural thing to do.

>> No.1948692

/sci/ - Math & Science

>> No.1948696

>>1948690
I lol'd

>> No.1948697

>>1948689
I think you'll find, earthling, that without God to define good for you, you are left to define good amongst yourselves, and you as a race can hardly reach a consensus.

Call me when you have that worked out

>> No.1948698
Quoted by: >>1948703 >>1948704

>>OP
I know that Stewie is a human invention, BUT EVEN SO the activity of thanking Stewie for not destroying the world and feeling Stewie's presence in everything is a healthy and natural thing to do.

>> No.1948700

It's always kind of startling to see how seriously you guys take Christianity. I guess it was a pressing issue in the run up to the civil war.

There's a modest minority of them scattered throughout North American habs but none of them affirm the supernatural elements of their religion. Nobody does. I was surprised to find out supernaturalism was a serious, persistent...thing? even after the turn of the century. Like, adults living in developed nations thinking that there are real supernatural aspects to the world. "My Face When", am I right?

The closest thing to that would, I suppose, be the Singularians. But you'll never get one to agree to characterize their belief system as supernaturalist. It's a good way to start a multi-hour argument and soapbox spiel though. They've got elaborate rationalizations for every aspect of their worldview which they assure you is grounded in scientific concepts. Concepts being the key word.

At the end of the day though, Kurzweil is dead, there is no "galactic quantum computing substrate" for him to have uploaded to. The technology didn't exist at the time. No matter how dear he is to his retard followers, he's dead.

You won't have to deal with these dumbfucks, but your kids will, and your grandkids.

>> No.1948702
Quoted by: >>1948708 >>1948715

>>1948689
I second that! Just look at the Dark Ages, and think of where we could be now if we didn't have two-three hundred years of scientific standstill due to an overpowering backward church.

Thankfully, we came quite far since then, but still, we have those fundamentalists who wish to return us to that era, or at the very least dedicate their lives to disrupting scientific progress with demonstrations and political pandering (just look at the Texas textbook cases or stem cell research).

>> No.1948703

>>1948698
I know that Rape is a human invention, BUT EVEN SO the activity of Raping and feeling the presence of rape's is a healthy and natural thing to do.

>> No.1948704
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1948704

>>1948698
Stewie!

>> No.1948708
Quoted by: >>1948717

>>1948702

>>but still, we have those fundamentalists who wish to return us to that era, or at the very least dedicate their lives to disrupting scientific progress with demonstrations and political pandering (just look at the Texas textbook cases or stem cell research).

Yeah, the CNPA. But the redshirts lost the war, if it's any consolation.

>> No.1948712
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1948712
Quoted by: >>1948715

you are now aware if it wasn't for religion everyone would probably be immortal by now

>> No.1948715
Quoted by: >>1948737 >>1948739

>>1948702
>>1948712
>and think of where we could be now

Yeah, well, where could we be? You as an individual are mortal. You as a race are mortal. The only thing that would have happened without the 300 year slump is that you would have figured it out quicker, and probably have killed yourselves.

If you don't kill yourself, the sun will. If the sun doesn't , the universe will. Your biological urges are at odds with the facts. You can either choose to believe that such a thing as "good" exists, and then be dismayed when you realize that a) you don't know what it is and b) if its anything like you imagine it to be, the universe has other plans.

Or you can just say that "good" is a defined word. It means whatever you want it to. In which case you must abandon any notion of "good" and use the word alone as a tool.

>> No.1948717

>>1948708
I'm on the other side of the Atlantic, and then some, so either way would have been fine with me. :)

Now , if it happened today... I'd be flying over guns blazing against fundamentalists. Well, maybe not "guns blazing", but I'd certainly take an interest in the situation, only diplomacy first.

>> No.1948721
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1948721

I know that the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are a human invention, BUT EVEN SO the activity of thanking them for the COWABUNGA and feeling their presence in everything is a healthy and natural thing to do.

>> No.1948731

Anyone who thinks we would be better off without religion is a fool.

Religious officials preserved and created the sciences, granted many times they repressed it, but it still stands.

Islams gave us algebra, medieval monks preserved the sciences through the dark ages, etc.

>> No.1948737
Quoted by: >>1948742

>>1948715
You did not react to my post at all.

"Good" is just a word. It is defined at all times by the consensus of the group in question, and when asking an individual, by the ingrained social norms.

I ask you to take part in a thought experiment with me, and imagine what definition of "good" a dedicated satanist would give. Or a Wiccan, who worships no single god, or even no god in the traditional sense, but spirits of Nature, and feels at peace if he/she can carry out his/her rituals at their prescribed times. Or what would a feral child say, if he/she could speak at all?

Also, defending my original point, which you have barely touched upon. Yes, I am mortal (barring significant advances in medicine and regeneration). No, humanity as a whole is not mortal: if you have ever seen survivors of some disaster, you would know that human will is indomitable (did I spell that right?). At least some of us will always find the will and strength to carry on, so humanity will not "kill themselves because we realize we are mortal". If anything, it makes us work even harder to leave our mark on history.

Damn good thing defeatist like you lack the drive to become leaders, or we'd be as stagnant as pond scum.

>> No.1948738

>>1948689
Got an answer yet?

>> No.1948739
Quoted by: >>1948743 >>1948746

>>1948715
>If you don't kill yourself, the sun will. If the sun doesn't , the universe will.
>Implying we can't find/create another universe.

But even so, enjoying billions of billions of years of "life", that's nicer than the mere seventy that we have now. And ther's always suicide.

>> No.1948740
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1948740

> OP's pic

What a desperate grab for relevance.

>> No.1948742
Quoted by: >>1948744

>>1948737
>Damn good thing defeatist like you lack the drive to become leaders, or we'd be as stagnant as pond scum.

This is funny I hope you realize.
>Damn good thing
>good

Who's to say its a good thing?

>> No.1948743
Quoted by: >>1948750

Playing the Devil's Advocate here:

>>1948739
And then you find out that you're not only ageless, but truly immortal in the sense even you can't kill yourself. Ouch...

>> No.1948744
Quoted by: >>1948755

>>1948742
Let me rephrase that: Damn FORTUNATE...

And who's to say it's good? Every poster in this thread: who wants to live in a scientifically stagnant theocracy?

>> No.1948746
Quoted by: >>1948760

>>1948739
Look, the original post I was responding to was taking a swing at religion for holding back "science."

I would say that it takes a great deal of faith to believe that man will ever be made immortal through technological means, and likewise that another universe could be made/found.

>> No.1948750
Quoted by: >>1948757

>>1948743
Uhuh. You throw yourself (well your graphene brain in fact, but that's the same) in a star, no better , a black hole. And you survive. And in fact, if suicide is indeed impossible, there still is one thing ... Coma induced ! Or memory erasing (that's death, if no remnants remains)

>> No.1948754
Quoted by: >>1948759

ITT atheists show why they are terrible at PR

You guys should be allying with people like the OP. You can stab them in the back later after the war is over.

>> No.1948755
Quoted by: >>1948783

>>1948744
>damn fortunate.

I don't think you understood the question. You just changed the word from good to fortunate. Look, I'm not saying that there is no such thing as good, but there isn't such a thing as good if it can be defined by a vote.

Anyway, you say I'm defeatist. And that that is a bad thing. I ask you, is anything in this universe really bad? According to atheists there is no rhyme or reason to the universe. It is, plain and simple, but it is meaningless.

The human heart is at odds with those "facts." The very fact that you called me a "defeatist" is proof of that. you do, in your heart believe in good. That isn't logical.

>> No.1948757

>>1948750
Point taken, well answered. The Devil's Advocate has no more questions, Your Honor. Defense rests.

>> No.1948759
Quoted by: >>1948764

>>1948754
Atheists are by their very nature stupid.

They deny a fact so obvious that even children are aware of it. Strangely, they are destined to be eliminated through the process of evolution

>> No.1948760

>>1948746
>I would say that it takes a great deal of faith to believe
I don't believe that. Unlike someons, i know how to separate reality from hogwash.
And immortality by technological mean is not "how", but "when".
Unless you believe in souls, if so, sure, no immortality. But i'm ginger, so i have no soul, lucky me, i can become immortal ! (kidding, not ginger.)

>> No.1948764

>>1948759

>>Atheists are by their very nature stupid.

Not according to the past century's worth of intelligence studies.

>> No.1948765
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1948765

religion does its best work when it's subjected to heavy scrutiny and oversight. this has been happening in the first world for a long time now (catholicism notwithstanding, but they're largely harmless because of their own inertia) and will continue to happen for the forseeable future. it's a happy day when the most harm religious nuts can do is bother people on science imageboards with their shitty attempts at logic.

>> No.1948783

>>1948755
I can't say I don't believe in "good". But I can say that it's because I was raised that way, like most people, and it's ingrained into my/our very being.

For the most part, I can safely say that I am not a Nietzschian Übermensch: I am susceptible to guilt and all pitfalls of human morale. But if you push me far enough, I can ignore those moral laws that were installed in each and every one of us (sociopaths excepted), and revise my definition of good as "beneficial to me". However, it does not remove the fact that, as I pointed out too, the definition of good, subjective as it is, is greatly influenced by the social norms one was raised in.
However, I'm seeing a drift in your point, as I remember you starting out arguing the faith was necessary in defining good. But do correct me if I'm wrong, since I joined this thread halfway into an argument...

However, I must admit that you're right in saying the human mind is at odds with being faced with a meaningless universe. And, I think, that is the major factor in why religions exist: to give one a straw to grasp at, that their life in this world had a reason. Even though I do not believe in fate, it gives me a bit of comfort to think that there is a reason I was born (though I'm fairly certain it was just random chance, and not some higher power).

>> No.1948794 [DELETED] 

>>1948783
if you're so intelligent why did you never go to college.

>> No.1948795
Quoted by: >>1948799

>>1948783
I don't understand one thing : what's the problem with having meaningless existance ?
Serious question.

>> No.1948796
File: 26 KB, 400x400, what the fuck am I reading.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1948796
Quoted by: >>1948798

>>1948783

>> No.1948798

>>1948796
For what point, that reaction ?

>> No.1948799

>>1948795
To me, nothing. To you, apparently, nothing. But the majority of people are not so accepting. Human nature, you could say...

>> No.1948806

>>1948783
My central point is that people cannot be good without religion, because without God, life has no meaning, and therefore there is no such thing as good or bad.

You can, however, do to the word "meaning" what you did to the word "good," and state that life's meaning is whatever we decide to make it. Which means that you are merely using the word in a pragmatic way, to deal with people who believe that life has meaning, in order to arrive at laws which achieve your goal.

And prior to that, i was responding to someone who stated that he believes in Jesus but not the miracles, and my response to that was that they are one in the same. Miracles imply purpose and causality.

But really, there was a lot more wrong with that post than just the fact that Jesus and Miracles are inseparable. I suppose I would ask that poster if he believes that life as we live it now can have any meaning if there isn't a miraculous judgement day after which point those who are worthy live forever. Does it really make sense? No, because if there is no miracle, then the universe ends and we end with it, which means that it is at odds with any sense of ultimate purpose.

>> No.1948814
Quoted by: >>1948819

>>1948806
just out of curiosuty, how old were you when you stopped going to school?

>> No.1948819
Quoted by: >>1948821

>>1948814
25

>> No.1948821
Quoted by: >>1948829

>>1948819
what did you study in uni?

>> No.1948822
Quoted by: >>1948829

>>1948806
Were does the "if life have no meaning, everybody will kill/rape eachothers, so religion save us !" ?
'Cause, and i'm deeply sorry, but that's stupid.
There is minority of good people, minority of bad people, and majority of neutral people.
In these neutral people, a lot are influencable.
That's all there is. If you teach to people what killing someone implie, i'm fairly confident the majority will just don't do it. Doesn't matter where they hear it.

And if you say that this is bullshit, i warn you, i have no argument or source. Like you.

>> No.1948828
Quoted by: >>1948834

>>1948806
OP here. I'm 99% sure you're a troll, but eh.

Firstly, Jesus and miracles are NOT inseparable. There's a good case to be made that Jesus never actually claimed to have magic powers, and that stuff was added in by Paul.

Even if Jesus did claim that, well then maybe he was a bit crazy. Doesn't mean you have to dismiss the main thrust of his teachings.

Secondly, "purpose" is a human word. We CREATE purpose, there is no "cosmic purpose" imposed on us.

You sure are scared of dying, huh?

>> No.1948829
Quoted by: >>1948840

>>1948821
what does it matter?

>>1948822
I don't care what you say. But as far as your question goes, I didn't understand it.

>> No.1948834

>>1948828
No, I'm not scared of dying. Nobody is. Because nobody has ever died before.

What's your question?

>> No.1948835
Quoted by: >>1948876

>>1948806
I think God can be eliminated from the equation in this case, leaving only the basic teachings (be nice to others, don't kill, don't commit adultery, etc.), although I'm not that furiously anti-religious to actively seek this, since I realize most need some form of religion to seek comfort in this world.

And yeah, I'm pragmatic. But at least I don't twist definitions to my benefit, like some people, so I'm consistent too.

>> No.1948840
Quoted by: >>1948851

>>1948829
because judging by what you wrote, i doubt you passed high school let alone a formal adult education. i'll leave it at that if you like.

>> No.1948849
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1948849

Anyone with an ounce of imagination can, given any set of data whatsoever,construct a cosmology compatible with that data which also includes God. (Or one which doesn't.) IMHO, anyone who finds themself having to invent ever more baroque explanations solely in order to retain either axiom might benefit from stopping and asking themselves if there's any conceivable reason -- other than divine encouragement -- why they might feel compelled to do this, and whether the most honest response to discovering that the answer is "yes" is to dream up an even more complicated universe in which all such reasons can be safely ignored.

>> No.1948851
Quoted by: >>1948853

>>1948840
Ordinarily, if someone made a statement like that I'd say, "I ain't gotta prove shit brotha" but...

It seems odd that someone wise enough to be able to detect the amount of education I've been through just by my writings would get it so wrong.

Either you don't know shit about evaluating someone's education over the internet, or you need to learn more. Maybe you should start wondering just who they let graduate and enroll and even teach in schools.

>> No.1948853
Quoted by: >>1948860

>>1948851
derpy derpy derp

>> No.1948860
Quoted by: >>1948881

>>1948853
I'm picturing you as a post grad writing "derpy derp derp" because its funny and because I'm the sort of person who knows that its possible. Anyone anywhere can write anything. I know that just because you wrote "derpy derp derp" doesn't mean you're a 16 year old who watches south park, and always feels unpopular and "left out."

>> No.1948876
Quoted by: >>1948886

>>1948835
Everyone has a God.

Put it this way. There is god and there is GOD.

All caps GOD is like lower case god. It has many synonyms. Good, truth, meaning, etc.

Everyone has a god. But what most people believe is that their lower case god is in fact the all caps GOD. They believe that THEIR meaning is the ultimate meaning. (Their purpose, the reason they get up in the morning.) The INTELLECTUALLY acknowledge that most people have an equal say in what good actually is, but they secretly only worship THEIR god.

The reason I say all of this is because you say that God can be eliminated.

No, not really. You can eliminate the Christian god, the word god, but everyone has their own god, and it cannot be eliminated.

So everyone has their own religion. And out of all of those, there is only one TRUE religion.

>> No.1948881
Quoted by: >>1948889

>>1948860
actually i was mocking the logical content of your post and trying to make it clear that you don't know the difference between a sound argument and a dark blue box with some text in it. anyone can make the latter, you seem to be unable to make the former.
also derrrrrrp

>> No.1948886

>>1948876
>So everyone has their own religion. And out of all of those, there is only one TRUE religion.

Hey, you don't happen to know which one it is, do you? That would be super helpful

>> No.1948889
Quoted by: >>1948903

>>1948881
which post?

>> No.1948895
Quoted by: >>1948899

>>1948886
Sure do.

>> No.1948899

>>1948895
Well don't keep us in suspense man.
Is it Islam? I bet it's Islam.

>> No.1948902
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1948902
Quoted by: >>1948912

What about tractors ?

>> No.1948903

>>1948889
*posts

>> No.1948906
Quoted by: >>1948910

>>1948886
By the way faggot, why the fuck would you believe anyone who told you what it was?

See, you're an idiot, first for posting a sarcastic comment which implies that you think its dumb that there is only one true religion.

And secondly, because you asked me. That would be like:
A math problem-100 people come up with 100 answers. You either
a.) say that because it has 100 answers give by 100 people, it must mean it has no TRUE answer

or

b.) Asking someone to tell you what the answer is (as if you'd know if they were right.)

>> No.1948907

>>1948886
I vote for scientology.
I mean, that's so obviously stupid, it must be a test for the faithful.
Xenu, i am your loyal servant, please forgive me for not accepting your rule, SAVE ME FROM THIS EXISTANCE bouhouhouhou !

Sorry.

>> No.1948910
Quoted by: >>1948913

>>1948906
>By the way faggot, why the fuck would you believe anyone who told you what it was?

I wouldn't

>> No.1948912
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1948912

>>1948902
I know that tractors are a human invention, BUT EVEN SO the activity of thanking the tractor for your existence and feeling the tractors presence in everything is a healthy and natural thing to do.

>> No.1948913
Quoted by: >>1948917

>>1948910
So go figure it out yourself.

Or you can just pretend there isn't one.

>> No.1948914

Why should we trust any man who claims to know what god wants, if he cannot perform miracles?
Why should you believe a story about a guy who made miracles happen, when the only difference between those very miracles and the shit you read about in fiction books is the word miracle applies to one and not the other?
Why the fuck are we arguing about god in a science board in the year 2010?
Can anyone here speak to god or provide any spiritual insight that doesn't have to be taken on faith?
Why would anyone devote more than idle time discussing intangible, unprovable things with other people?

>> No.1948917
Quoted by: >>1948918

>>1948913
I'm the OP silly. You already know what I think.

Also, that's an interesting use of the word "pretend".

>> No.1948918
Quoted by: >>1948921

>>1948917
What you think and what you know are two different thinks.

>> No.1948921
Quoted by: >>1948925

>>1948918
Okay dude, how about you let us know how you "figured out" the true religion. Also, which one is it? You still haven't told us.
Unless you're that Christian from before.

>> No.1948925
Quoted by: >>1948927 >>1948947

>>1948921
Why should I? Think whatever you want to think, I don't care. Its been fun, I have no pressing urge to make anyone believe me.

>> No.1948927
Quoted by: >>1948939

>>1948925
>I have no pressing urge to make anyone believe me

Oh thank goodness. I guess this means that whatever the true religion is, it doesn't punish nonbelievers.
Take care

>> No.1948930

>Why should we trust any man who claims to know what god wants, if he cannot perform miracles?
That's faith, dude, you don't get it. You just don't get it, dude.
>Why should you believe a story about a guy who made miracles happen, when the only difference between those very miracles and the shit you read about in fiction books is the word miracle applies to one and not the other?
Still don't get it, dude. You have to BELIEVE, dude. You have to BELIEVE.
>Why the fuck are we arguing about god in a science board in the year 2010?
'Cause, that's so fun to laugh of religious people, even if they just are trolls. IRL. Without knowing it.
>Can anyone here speak to god or provide any spiritual insight that doesn't have to be taken on faith?
Of course not, dude. You have to BELIEVE. To have faith, dude. God's a junky. He like faith too much. Sad story.
>Why would anyone devote more than idle time discussing intangible, unprovable things with other people?
They are child at heart, and just don't want to let go their imaginary friends. (strange, never had one myself...)

>> No.1948932

I think that's the position of many jews have towards their religion. They value jewish tradition and values, and thus participate of the religious events and rituals, but many could be considered atheists: they don't believe God really exists.

>> No.1948933
Quoted by: >>1948951

>I know that God is a human invention, BUT EVEN SO the activity of thanking God for your existence and feeling God's presence in everything is a healthy and natural thing to do.
So it's basically self-deception?

>> No.1948939
Quoted by: >>1948943

>>1948927
So that means you don't want to know the Truth?

>> No.1948943

>>1948939
Don't know for him, but the truth, with a t, satisfies me.

>> No.1948945

okay, gotta go to bed now.

But I want you all to think about it. If there were a true religion, how would you go about figuring out what it was?
Don't give up right away. It may be the most important thing you do.

>> No.1948947

>>1948925
owned

>> No.1948951
Quoted by: >>1948974

>>1948933
>So it's basically self-deception?

Sort of. It's more like taking an abstract concept and treating it as a real one.

Think about the idea of "human rights" for example. We know that there are no actual objects called "human rights", but it's useful to speak about them as if there was.

Everyone feels grateful when life is going well for them. The trouble is that if it's just luck that is helping you, you have nowhere to put your thanks. God is a natural extension of the human idea of gratitude - someone to thank for things that no human is responsible for.

I think always being thankful is a good way to live, even if sometimes you have to thank something nonexistent.

>> No.1948954
File: 32 KB, 500x389, science.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1948954

>> No.1948962
Quoted by: >>1948973 >>1948979

These people are atheists, they don't beleive in God, but they are afraid of that word, of what society will think of them. So they call themselves Christians, but in reality, they are just frightened of their own logic. The teachings of Christ are bullshit. There are people with teachings that surpass his on every level, but they just aren't special I suppose. These people need to crack a book by Kant, or Mill, or Hume, or Aristotle, or fucking Nietzsche, I don't care, but they need to learn that Jesus was a nobody.

>> No.1948973

>>1948962
And, until proof, don't existed.

>> No.1948974
Quoted by: >>1948986

>>1948951

No, human rights is a thing, we all might have different interpretations, but the idea is to find the one that makes the most sense. I think that we can all agree that throwing babies into a blender and then forcing the mothers to drink the baby juice is a violation of some sort of basic human decency, now we just have to build off of the baby blender until we have a set of universal rights that makes sense for humans to live prosperously and happily. That will advance society.

This shit, on the other hand, is people clinging to millinea old superstition even though they have figured out its all a bunch of garbage. People need to wake the fuck up, unfortunately, these people are just hitting snooze. They want to cling to what is "normal", to be a jesus lover is normal, but in reality its nothing more than delusion. When a man hears voices of Tim Perrywinkle in his brain telling him to sacrifice his son to the spirits, we lock his ass up. If the same man hears God he becomes a fucking saint and prophet. It makes no sense, and people need to accept that.

>> No.1948979
Quoted by: >>1948990

>>1948962
Um dude I'm pretty sure an "atheistic Christian" would be happy to admit that they're an atheist.

Also the thing is that Jesus wasn't a philosopher. He was a sort of combination ethics prescriber / storyteller.

I love Aristotle and Nietzsche, but they're not trying to give you inspiration - they're serious philosophers trying to construct complex webs of thought.

I love most of what Jesus said. He was a breath of fresh air. He hated hypocrisy, he taught having respect for others, he taught distrust of authority, he taught that knowing the truth is more important than being happy. These things all ring true to me.

>> No.1948984
File: 133 KB, 308x400, aristotle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1948984
Quoted by: >>1948993

i would like to argue with the guy who said jesus is a nobody but because jesus apparently never had a pen on him and subsequently did not write anything down and cannot really even be proved to exist by any known artifact or public record i can't really put forth a sound argument. i'd better shut up.

OR

YOU CANT PROVE ARISTOTLE DONT EXISTED

>> No.1948986
Quoted by: >>1948995

>>1948974
>If the same man hears God he becomes a fucking saint and prophet.

Progressive Christians (mostly) don't think that God is a real thing, and so obviously don't think he communicated with Jesus.

There really is no superstition here. It's more of a way of life, acting AS IF there is a God to be thankful to who wants you to spread love.

>> No.1948990
Quoted by: >>1948997

>>1948979

Are you trying to say that Nietzsche and Aristotle didn't have a shitload to say on ethics? Will to Power ring any bells? Nicomachean Ethics? No? Read a book, then we'll talk.

>> No.1948993
Quoted by: >>1949006

>>1948984
Secular historians are pretty much unanimous that Jesus was a real guy. They're also pretty much unanimous that certain parts of the bible are really records of what he said.

>> No.1948995
Quoted by: >>1949003 >>1949011

>>1948986

Yes, and I act as if there is a fairy from the underworld that wants me to sow destruction and death, to rain my feces upon the newly born in a hospital ward, to tip cows onto land mines, to rape and pillage with a rifle in one hand and my throbbing cock in the other!

Why is is that my interpretation of the imaginary things telling me what to do is crazy and wrong again?

>> No.1948997
Quoted by: >>1949012

>>1948990

Calm down dude. I have read Will to Power. Like I said, I love Nietzsche, but it's not the same thing. He has plenty to say ABOUT ethics, descriptively. That's his job, he's an intellectual setting up an ethical framework.

Jesus is different, he's more like a demagogue. He says "We should do this!" and I'm like "Hey he's right!"
I agree with Jesus on most things because of who I am, not because of who he is.

>> No.1949003

>>1948995
It's crazy and wrong because of human ethics (i.e. the only kind of ethics). Someone behaving in the way I described is compatible with human ethics, and in fact is likely to be judged a good person.

>> No.1949006
File: 20 KB, 364x344, 1281550002335.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1949006
Quoted by: >>1949015

>>1948993
how many pages in the bible are about jesus again? is there any other writings about him from his time?

>> No.1949011

>>1948995
You don't get it, dude. That's a WAY OF LIFE. A WAY OF LIFE, dude, you don't get it.

>> No.1949012
Quoted by: >>1949020

>>1948997
have you read dostoyevsky's idiot? because that's pretty much what Nietzsche thought of jesus

>> No.1949015
Quoted by: >>1949023

>>1949006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

>> No.1949020

>>1949012
>have you read dostoyevsky's idiot?

Nope. Also, I don't really judge philosophers like Nietzsche as "likely to be correct about things", I just like the excitement of seeing someone construct a grand theory. So I don't really care what Nietzsche thinks of Jesus.

Aristotle is my homeboy though (I'm a mathematician).

>> No.1949023
Quoted by: >>1949040

>>1949015
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

>> No.1949032
File: 185 KB, 1600x900, x20.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1949032

How can you believe in evolution if it's just a theory? (a gauss)

>> No.1949040
Quoted by: >>1949043

>>1949023
Yeah, but you know what Wikipedia's like with fringe views (which I love, don't get me wrong). Of course it's possible that Jesus in an amalgamation of various people, or a myth, or something.

But it doesn't make a difference to my views. It just means that I find a fictional character inspiring instead of a real person.

>> No.1949043
Quoted by: >>1949047

>>1949040
herb a derb

>> No.1949047
Quoted by: >>1949053 >>1949054

>>1949043

What, you think it's strange to find a fictional character inspiring? Come on, I know you cry while watching your anime

>> No.1949048
Quoted by: >>1949054

this is a board on this website dedicated to a japanese children's card game.


Please continue argueing about the nature of the divine.

>> No.1949053

>>1949047
That may not be ridicule, sure, but persisting in that particular semantic, "god bless you" "thank god" "what the hell"
DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU MERCI DIEU M-
MAIS TU VAS LA FERMER AVEC TON PUTAIN DE DIEU, TU PEUX PAS T'EMPÊCHER DE LE SORTIR A CHAQUE PHRASE BORDEL DEM-
Hem. I mean ...
Well, i guess you get it.

>> No.1949054
File: 62 KB, 497x359, 1280727299938.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1949054
Quoted by: >>1949060

>>1949047
>>1949048

derp derp derdily doo

>> No.1949060
File: 76 KB, 239x239, n5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
1949060

>>1949054

>> No.1949063

Right, I am OP and I'm going to bed.

If it makes you feel any better, you can think of me as an atheist plant who will gain the confidence of Christians and attempt to un-supernatural them.

But I have the "God gene", I need to feel God. It's just how I am. And I think I'm doing the most responsible thing under the circumstances by at least admitting that he doesn't exist. :p

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